two men standing together wearing black
two men standing together wearing black

The conversation between Durjoy Rahman and Sam Dalrymple took place over Zoom. We have used artistic licence to create the photo montage above

In the third of our series of online dialogues, Sam Dalrymple, Activist and Co-Founder of Project Dastaan, speaks with philanthropist Durjoy Rahman about cultural reconnections post-partition, the importance of multi-cultural artists across borders, and the rapid shift in popularity away from the West and towards the East. With an introduction and moderation by Darius Sanai and created in association with the Durjoy Bangladesh Foundation.
Raghu Rai is a Magnum Photographer who chronicled the Independence war of Bangladesh in 1971 when the territory that was East Pakistan gained independence from what is now Pakistan. The Indian army ultimately came to the aid of Bangladesh after an enormous refugee crisis ensued. We present a selection of his works within this article

LUX: Sam, could you tell us firstly what sparked your interest in Partition and inspired you to create the ground-breaking ‘Project Dastaan’?

Sam Dalrymple: Project Dastaan began when my friends Sparsh, Ameenah and Saadia were at University chatting about the fact that everyone’s grandparents had migrated from somewhere in the Sub-Continent, and how bizarre it was that in the UK you could have the easiest conversations about this.

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When you are in India, it is difficult to chat to a Pakistani, when you’re in Pakistan it’s difficult to chat to a Bangladeshi as these walls have been built up in the Sub-Continent, so that it is actually in the former colonial power where it is easiest to talk.

There were conversations about how Sparsh’s grandfather had migrated from near Islamabad, in Pakistan, and here was Saadia who was from near there and could easily go and take pictures of his old house or temple which had been impossible for Sparsh’s family for 75 years. They had no pictures of it, no idea where they were from. The ease from a London standpoint to re-connect triggered the whole thing.

A man standing next to a monkey which is sitting on a wall in the street

Ayodhya, india 1993

The partition that is the cause of this fragmentation in India was, simply put, the largest forced migration in human history. In the course of a year what had been British India, was divided into two territories, which is now three – India and Pakistan, which later became Pakistan and Bangladesh. This was 75 years ago and for most of that time, most of the migrated people have never been able to see their homes again.

So it began as an attempt to use virtual reality to re-connect Partition survivors across borders, so if you came from Lahore and had migrated to Delhi, we would go out and find your old Mosque, your old school, your old house and, if we can, find any friends who you knew before 1947.

Crowds of people walking in a town

Chawri Bazar, old Delhi, India, 1972

We additionally wanted to translate some of these stories that we were hearing, into animations with a cross-border, collaborative studio in Bangalore and Lahore, which was in itself an attempt at cross-border with team members scattered from Bengal to Punjab. Then, we finally made a film called ‘Child of Empire’, which just premiered at Sundance. It is a VR mini-movie, a 15-minute animated journey through the Partition based on Sparsh’s grandfather’s story and another man who did the opposite journey. It is about these two men 75 years later chatting to one another and the therapeutic discussion of their two journeys which mirror each other in so many ways but, obviously, have been polarised so much over time.

LUX: In the context of Partition, what does Partition and its consequences mean to you Durjoy?

Durjoy Rahman: I come from a generation where it was my parents who had seen the displacement, twice. They were born during this time and have seen the consequences and the aftermath of partitions first hand. I grew up hearing everything that happened in 1947, the riots and so on. So between me and my parents we have seen the largest displacement in the history of these civilisations that happened in this region. These experiences have influenced me to do activities surrounding Durjoy Bangladesh Foundation heavily.

Mother Teresa putting her hands to her mouth in prayer

Mother Teresa at her refuge of the Missionaries of Charity in Calcutta, during prayer, India, 1979

LUX: Do people have a strong sense of national identity currently? Would you say that this is down to cultural or religious differences?

SD: It is many differences and culture definitely plays into it. I think the memories of both ’47 and ’71 play into how people remember their pasts, but it is also a generational factor. The national identities are harder for the younger generation who never knew the other side of the border, whereas for a lot of people who migrated at the time nationalism was firing up these independence movements.

Art definitely plays into how we create a nation, with national anthems and the flag which of course crystalise these ideas of nationhood. What we’re seeing now is the crystallising of losing the generation who knew undivided India as undivided.

Some children sitting amongst ruins in a city

Imambara, Lucknow, India, 1990

DR: Nationality has always been an important element in the subcontinent. We always talk about India and Pakistan, but I would also include Sri Lanka, Nepal and Bhutan in this context. Everyone holds their own nationalistic value to identify themselves and where they are from. But culture and religion, these two determined factors were also a factor when the British divided the subcontinent with the Muslims in Pakistan and left India where it was. A lot of people said ‘well, religiously you are all the same’ but religion is not the only deciding factor. We were culturally different so that was also important.

We are Bengali as Sam just said – we were never Pakistani, maybe we were all Muslims, but we were culturally different. So culture is a very important factor in defining borders and nationality. How you possess your cultural identity, this is what I believe defines you, and no matter how younger generations perceive themselves as a global citizen with a global identity, the identity borders will remain in our lifetime.

A woman sitting on a floor in a striped tent

Indira Gandhi at a Congress session, Delhi 1967

LUX: Sam, Project Dastaan is ultimately a unifying project taking people virtually across borders. How has it been received among the people you deal with?

SD: It has touched people because it was something they thought was impossible, to see their old homes. The key thing has been not trying to look at the big and complex questions of Partition – We’re trying to show conflict through the eyes of an 8-year-old child. The generation that is still alive were mostly 12 or younger 75 years ago. We’re trying to show it through the eyes of the generation who’s still around. One of the things they would want to see is their old playground, their old houses, and the things that everyone can relate to. I think addressing the conflict and the great divide through these memories and nostalgia can be very healing.

A man with his head leaning outside the window of a train

Darjeeling Himalayan Railway (the Toy train), India, 1995

LUX: Durjoy, you wish to promote the art of people who may not have had a voice, without borders. How does that relate to the very definite borders in Pakistan, Bangladesh and India?

DR: Since DBF was established in 2018, our projects have been based on the concept of art without borders. We never considered ourselves a foundation that had originated from Bangladesh. We started working with creative personalities regardless of whether they were visual artists, musicians, literature backgrounds, performance artists and we did not consider which region they are from. We have always identified if their practice relates to the mandates that we are trying to highlight; displacement, disadvantage, ethnicity, some kind of challenge which probably obstructs their creative development. So, art without borders was our primary goal.

A woman pushing a heavy cart on a road

Woman pushing cart Delhi 1979

LUX: Sam, with Project Dastaan, what will make you feel like you have achieved your aim, what will you be doing in 5 years, 10 years?

SD: Who knows, is the answer! The big thing we’ve been working on is this particular year as it’s the 75th anniversary, and I think the aim has always been to raise awareness about what happened – the aim has always been to try and get people to record these stories, because they are disappearing rapidly. The foundation of our project has been oral history, and the contemporaneous generation is rapidly disappearing. I think we also have a particular aim within Britain, to get Britain aware of its role in the events.

LUX: Regarding artists and the film-making that you employ, was that something that you had conceived from the start that is not just a means of storytelling, but something that you want to focus on and encourage?

SD: With Project Dastaan, the aim has always been cross-border collaboration. For our animation teams, one of our animators had a family who fought in 71, another family was part of the trading diaspora across the Bay of Bengal. I think one of the interesting things is, and I’m not sure how deliberate it was, but the types of animators and the team we built around ourselves, seems to have brought in people whose stories kind of corroborate the stories we are telling.

People working in a field holding baskets on their heads

Hand building highway – Hydrabad, India, 2004

LUX: Durjoy, with regard to the next generation that you’re supporting in terms of art and culture, do you feel that there’s a role for creative practitioners to break down these borders?

DR: I would say that I am not only very hopeful, but I am very optimistic. In this post-covid scenario, in this globalised atmosphere, I personally believe that we were in the right moment where we could take the entire South Asian art movement to the next level. Now the West has started looking at the East. Of course, our foundation and activities focus on promoting artists from South Asia, but we have seen a massive global increase in interest for South Asian artists. I also believe that these artists will take great advantage from the rising virtual scene within the context of the more active online and digital art scene within the past two years.

SD: I think what you said then is exactly right. One of the most interesting pieces that I’ve read recently was by Fatima Bhutto in her book ‘New Kings of the World’, which talks about the shift in the past 20 years. The biggest film industry is Bollywood, the biggest TV industry is Turkey now and the biggest music industry is now South Korea K-Pop. I think there is a lot of hope and a lot of growth in the artistic sphere here. I don’t think that will necessarily mean the borders themselves disappear; I don’t think that’s going to happen. I think there’s going to be more collaboration, more interesting art pieces and more embracing of technology for it.

People moving in a station and a man reading a newspaper in the middle

Local commuters at Church Gate railway station. Mumbai, 1995

DR: Would you ever choose another region as your beaming point, other than India?

SD: I think the idea of virtual reconnections is something that you can use in an array of different countries, but we are so focused on areas affected by the Partition as that is where the personal connections of the team lie and a very specific area of interest where we can enact real memory connecting change. What’s unusual is that these countries are so close in so many ways, it’s just that trauma etc has left them severed from one another It’s a bizarre, specific situation that neither of them have ability for tourist visas, there’s no tourist visas for India and Pakistan, you can’t just visit, you have to have a reason and government approval.

Read more: Rana Begum and Durjoy Rahman on South Asian art’s global ascendancy

LUX: Possibly controversial, but I would love to hear from you both, what do you consider needs to happen for conceptions to really change around the Partition and affect the vast majority of the population?

DR: We have to perform what we believe and have to do what is good for the community, what is good for the region, despite what the supremacy wants to establish.

SD: I don’t think there is a simple solution, but I think that creating conversations and conflict resolution is always a noble aim. I think conflict resolution and actually talking about it is where to start, without bias and actually listening.

All images © Raghu Rai

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Reading time: 10 min
colours bursting out from a white city from a birds eye view
colours bursting out from a white city from a birds eye view

Still for VR work Sleepwalking in the Forbidden City, Cai Guo-Qiang, courtesy, Cai Studio, Vive Arts

Celina Yeh is the Executive Director of Vive Arts, a platform trying democratise the art world through digital innovation. Here, Yeh speaks to Samantha Welsh about the endless opportunities that technology is bringing to the art world as well as extended creativity for the artists themselves.

LUX: Is your background in tech or art?
Celina Yeh: Before I became the Executive Director of Vive Arts, I was the Head of Global Partnerships, working directly with artists and museums on projects across the digital spectrum. My background has always been in art and design. I previously worked in cultural organisations and design consultancies in London, New York and Taipei. In these roles, I often worked on experience and exhibition design, which gave me substantial production experience and a strong understanding of the creative process and how things are made.

One of the strengths of the Vive Arts team is the diversity and depth of our experience. Our willingness and interest in engaging with collaborators from all disciplines allows us to innovate and develop new possibilities for artists and creators.

LUX: Why did the Vive Arts partnership programme and art market platform spin-out from tech giant HTC?
CY: Vive Arts was established in 2017 as HTC’s art and technology programme, aiming to harness the latest technologies to transform how art and culture can be experienced.

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We started by working with museums in a range of different ways, from developing content that told the stories of their collections and exhibitions, to supporting with hardware or the physical installation for digital works. In 2018 we started collaborating with a group of contemporary artists and really exploring the possibilities of VR as a medium for art.

Over the past five years, we have now partnered with over fifty international institutions, including the Louvre in Paris, the Museum of Natural History in New York and the Tate Modern and V&A in London and worked with visionary artists – such as Marina Abramović, Anish Kapoor, Dominique Gonzalez-Foerster and Cai Guo-Qiang on their first VR works.

A blue painting of a woman holding her child on the ground

Slav Epic VR

At the end of last year, Vive Arts launched a new chapter, with a new brand identity, website and our art marketplace platform, reflecting our own evolution and the rapidly changing digital art space. As digital technologies have become an increasingly integral part of the art world and daily life, we wanted to continue to innovate new frameworks for artistic expression.

HTC actually developed the first blockchain smartphone in 2018 and had been exploring this field for some time. So when NFTs exploded, it seemed very natural for us to expand our remit, so that we could offer new services spanning VR, XR and metaverse technologies to the creative community.

LUX: Can you tell us about how digital mediums such as AR, VR, XR offer different experiences of immersive art and open up access to the metaverse?
CY: VR, XR and AR offer new ways to create and experience art – fundamentally they enable experiences that would not otherwise be possible.

To discuss the differences – In VR – instead of standing in front of an artwork, you are immersed inside it, in a 360-degree virtual environment. This offers a powerful first-person experience, as you look around and explore, interacting with others and the space itself. AR in contrast, brings the virtual into the physical world, showcasing artworks only visible through your phone or another device. This opens up opportunities to host interventions in public spaces, expand an exhibition with a digital layer or present pieces that could not be produced in any other form.

These digital tools and mediums are the building blocks for the metaverse, a 3-dimensional, spatial iteration of the internet and will become increasingly important as the boundaries between online and offline become increasingly blurred and these technologies become more seamless. At HTC, we are constantly improving our sensors, eye-tracking and face-tracking, so that if you want to have a realistic avatar in the metaverse you can show facial expressions and when you speak your lips will follow. These technologies will determine how we access and interact in the metaverse, allowing users to experience an artwork or attend a live event or exhibition, from anywhere in the world.

A woman with a VR headset on looking at the Mona Lisa

Still from Mona Lisa Beyond the Glass, Courtesy Emissive and HTC Vive Arts

LUX: We are familiar with digital forms of art experimentation, so what kind of institutions, artists and creatives are asking you to partner with them?
CY: We work with a range of artists, institutions, and creators and have had a particularly busy programme this year. We partnered with Serpentine on their major solo exhibition by Dominique Gonzalez-Foerster and worked with Dominique for the second time, producing Alienarium, a new VR art experience for the show. We supported critically acclaimed artist and filmmaker Wu Tsang on her mesmerising film and sound installation Of Whales for the Venice Biennale, which she has iterated into her first ever VR work for Art Basel.

We are also currently working with the Triennale di Milano and are preparing to launch a special new VR experience for the 23rd International Exhibition. This piece is quite different as it celebrates the Fondazione itself, shining a light on its most important exhibitions from 1933 to present day and its impact on the world of art and design.

Additionally, we are also developing several exciting NFT collaborations, that will launch on our marketplace, spanning sound art, astrology, photography and more.

We get a lot of exciting proposals, including those from the education sector and from independent artists and creators. We are therefore thinking about doing an open call in the near future.

A screen on the river underneath arches and the reflection in the water of a galaxy

Wu Tsang Of Whales. Photo by Matteo De Fina, supported by Vive Arts

LUX: To what extent would you say you are cultural custodians?
CY: An important part of our mission is to preserve art and culture and to make it accessible to wider audiences. In our partnerships with museums, we explore creative ways to add a new dimension to their collections and programming, extending their reach beyond their physical walls. For example, in our ongoing partnership with the Mucha Foundation in Prague, we collaborated with them on Slav Epic VR, a VR experience dedicated to Alphonse Mucha’s iconic series of paintings. While it is difficult for the monumental 20-canvas series to travel, this experience can be hosted in exhibitions around the world, offering audiences an opportunity to engage with the artist and his legacy.

LUX: What kind of creative freedom does immersive experimentation potentially offer an artist?
CY: As these technologies are constantly evolving, I believe we have only begun to scratch the surface of what can be achieved creatively in these new mediums, especially with the radical innovation and experimentation of artists.

Immersive mediums enable artists to bring their vision to life, unconstrained by what is possible in the physical world, and they offer their own powerful forms of storytelling. VR invites viewers inside an artist’s world, for a deeply personal experience, where you can embody new forms and perspectives and have visceral sensations, such as gravity or movement.

For example, Wu Tsang often explores different visual languages and narrative techniques in her practice. She was interested in experimenting with the world building potential of VR and game engine technologies and has used them to create different encounters throughout her series of Moby Dick adaptations. This ranged from building virtual environments, that were incorporated into her live-action silent film to creating a poetic rendering of the ocean, through the eyes of the whale for Of Whales. A mighty mass emerges, again offers a completely different artistic experience, as viewed through the VR headset, audiences are immersed under the surface of the ocean, as the whale completes its deep dive cycle.

fish making a whirlpool in the sea

VR still, A mighty mass emerges, Wu Tsang, 2022, courtesy of artist and Vive Arts copy

LUX: Does the use of digital technologies irrevocably change what art is about and the creative process?
CY: I think that the use of digital technologies doesn’t so much change what art is about but opens up new areas of engagement and enquiry. The creativity of artists often inspires us, as in our experience each artist approaches digital mediums in their own distinctive way, their existing practice, putting their own imprint on the discourse.

For example, the two VR artworks we are premiering at Art Basel, by Albert Oehlen and Wu Tsang were created using Unreal Engine and Unity, which are both game engine technologies, but the creative process and pieces are entirely different. While Wu has used the technology to enable viewers to imagine and inhabit a non-human perspective, Albert has created an amazing, hyperrealistic avatar of himself, using photogrammetric scanning, a motion capture suit and other techniques found more in films and video games.

Albert has been exploring the aesthetics of technology since the 1990s, using inkjet printers and computer aided drawing programmes in his paintings. In Basement Drawing you can get up close to him as an avatar and watch him create an ink drawing in real time. He plays with reality and fiction in this virtual scene, adding his own glitch, flashing green and red lights, pounding electronic music and a surreal arm, sticking out of a self-portrait in the room.

Another unique approach was when we worked with renowned Chinese contemporary artist Cai Guo-Qiang on his inaugural VR piece Sleepwalking in the Forbidden City. He wanted to ensure the ‘hand of artist’ could be seen, producing the key elements in the physical world, including producing a real, large-scale day-time fireworks display and a handcrafted alabaster model of Beijing’s Forbidden City.

A cartoon of a rabbit in a pink room with a blind fold and a hand coming out of the wall pointing at it

Still from Curious Alice, a VR experience created by the V&A and HTC Vive Arts. Featuring original artwork by Kristjana S Williams, 2020

LUX: From this, what will be the take aways from Vive Arts’ partnership with Art Basel this year?
CY: We are thrilled to be partnering with Art Basel in Basel for the first time this year, following our previous presentations at Art Basel in Hong Kong. We are looking forward to welcoming visitors to our lounge and showcasing Wu Tsang and Albert Oehlen’s first VR works. We feel that these two new VR works really speak to our mission of transforming how art can be experienced and demonstrate the technological progress, innovation and creativity taking place in the digital art world. We hope that visitors will enjoy being transported into Albert’s studio or Wu’s ocean world and have a new and distinct experience of art at the fair.

LUX: Tell us more about transacting in Vive Arts marketplace?
CY: There can be a lot of ‘hype’ in the NFT space and when we were developing the Vive Arts marketplace we really wanted to keep the focus on quality and content of the artwork itself, as did the artists we work with. We have a holistic approach and as with our other digital art projects, we work with artists and institutions from the very beginning to think about the concept for their NFT series and what they would like to create. We see the platform as a virtual gallery space and metaverse solution for the creative community and due to HTC’s expertise and experience, it has a technologically robust infrastructure that can host all forms of digital art, including complex immersive pieces.

Read more: Alissa Everett: Covering Beauty

Our aim is for the platform to democratise the digital art market, offering access to creators and collectors, whether they are well versed in NFTs or exploring them for the first time. It is designed as a curated, easy-to-use, intuitive smart marketplace, which accepts both crypto and fiat currencies and we have in-house artist liaison, art advisory and technical teams that can offer support through the whole process.

The marketplace is part of HTC’s metaverse platform Viverse, so that users can seamlessly explore, experience and purchase the digital art works.

LUX: So, in the Viverse, buyers are effectively avatars in a transactional alternative universe?
CY: Viverse is a virtual universe that people can inhabit to learn, explore, create, shop and socialise together but it can be experienced in a number of ways. HTC has designed the platform to be accessible, so it can be entered through a phone or laptop as well as VR headset. Some experiences may be first person, while for others you might create an avatar as a way to socialise or explore the virtual space.

A screen on the river underneath arches and the reflection in the water of jellyfish

Wu Tsang Of Whales. Photo by Matteo De Fina, supported by Vive Arts

LUX: What energy-conscious, sustainable alternatives are there to blockchain provenance and what are you doing better than competitors?
CY: We are aware that NFTs have been criticised for their impact on the environment and on our platform, in addition to Ethereum, we provide a more energy-conscious alternative Proof of Stake (PoS) and Proof of Stake Authority (PoSA) Blockchains. We are constantly looking for ways to be more energy conscious and to offset our carbon footprint and are exploring and supporting technological advancements that will create a sustainable future for digital art. We have joined the Crypto Climate Accord (CCA), an initiative inspired by the Paris Climate Agreement, committed to decarbonising the cryptocurrency and blockchain industry, though accelerating the development of digital #ProofOfGreen solutions and establishing new industry practices.

LUX: What are the first steps for anyone wanting to engage with Vive Arts?
CY: We would love for visitors to Art Basel in Basel to come and experience our latest art commissions and collaborations at the Vive Arts Lounge or to visit our other projects that are currently on show, at the Serpentine in London and at the Venice Biennale.

We would also like to invite audiences from around the world to explore our projects, through the Vive Arts website and marketplace and through Viveport and other VR platforms, where you can experience several of our past projects such as Mona Lisa: Beyond the Glass, which was developed in collaboration with the Louvre for their blockbuster Leonardo da Vinci exhibition in 2019 or Curious Alice, which we developed for the V&A’s Alice: Curiouser and Curiouser last year.

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Reading time: 12 min
Monochrome image of a man
Dancer sitting against a green background

Ballet dancer, actor and entrepreneur Sergei Polunin. Image by Alex Kerkis

Tattooed, athletic and outspoken, ballet maestro Sergei Polunin has a way of keeping everyone on their toes. LUX talks to the dancer, actor and entrepreneur about his internet-breaking video for Hozier, working with Kenneth Branagh, and dancing in virtual reality

1. Can you describe your style of dancing?

It’s a combination of having trained in two different countries: Russia, with its classical training, precise technique and good clean positions, and England, where there is a lot of acting and expression in every movement.

2. Are you a rule-breaker?

I actually enjoy following the rules when it comes to ballet. When you’re training, you need to follow a very strict path, but in order to perform, you need to feel free. During performances, I try to discard the rules and translate what I feel for the audience.

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3. Your feelings about ballet institutions seem untraditional, though?

I’m trying to build an alternative system to compete with the old theatre system, which has been going since the 1800s, where ballet dancers are signed up and then are told exactly what to do for their whole career. They’re not allowed any representation or to negotiate for money or to choose their next project – like old Hollywood. I’m working with the government to offer dancers more money and freedom and to create some healthy competition.

4. What is the biggest misconception about male ballet dancers?

That they are silly or feminine. I was never bullied for dancing, though; I’ve always considered it a man’s job. Boxers learn dancing to improve their flexibility and to hide emotions. Just as a dancer never shows how hard they are working, a fighter hides where his next punch is coming from. Also, if you choose to study ballet, you’ll be surrounded by girls! That would never happen with football.

5. Did you expect Hozier’s ‘Take Me to Church’ video with your dance to go viral?

Not really, no. When they filmed the video, I had been thinking about quitting dancing for acting, so I wasn’t in the best shape at the time. I’m happy that so many people appreciated it but I still see lots of technical mistakes!

Monochrome portrait of a man

Monochrome image of a man

Here and above: Sergei Polunin photographed by Morgan Norman

6. How do you connect with the audience when you are dancing in an arena?

Performing for that many people gives me more energy. I could actually dance larger, perform bigger! It’s important to show that ballet can work for big stadium audiences, too.

7. What great traditional ballet roles are left for you to perform?

So many amazing dancers have already performed these roles, I don’t think I could add anything. I want to create new things instead.

Read more: Van Cleef & Arpels CEO Nicolas Bos on the poetry of jewellery

8. Are there any stories begging to be made into a ballet?

Many! You can turn anything into a ballet. Imagine a Marvel or DC comic and dancing as the Joker or the Penguin.

9. How about a ballet about the Kardashians?

Absolutely! Dance has no boundaries. You can dance as a chess piece, a planet, a myth, a god.

10. What do you think is the future of dance?

Virtual reality and 3D technology are the perfect mediums for dance. Once a dance is done, how can the performance be saved forever? I think virtual reality is the answer.

11. You’ve acted in films directed by Kenneth Branagh and Ralph Fiennes. Did they give you any acting advice?

They didn’t have too many corrections on set. I think as an actor you transfer your personal energy into the role. Some actors just make you want to look at them, like Mickey Rourke or Marlon Brando on screen – I don’t care what they’re doing or saying, I just look at them.

12. Can you imagine a life without dancing?

Dance is my centre and my core. I always come back to it. It comes easily to me, but I don’t spend time thinking about it. I pursue other things like acting and I’m building a foundation to bring together financing, resources and people to develop and fund creative projects. I want to support different kinds of talents – choreographers, lighting designers, costume designers, painters, film directors, playwrights.

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This interview was originally published in the Summer 2020 Issue. 

Reading time: 3 min