Olaffur Eliasson photographed for LUX in his Berlin studio by Simon de Pury

Olafur Eliasson is an artist of global renown, a former breakdancing champion, an academic and a passionate champion of the planet. Simon de Pury, auctioneer extraordinaire and long-time LUX collaborator, creates art collections for the world’s super-wealthy and runs celebrity charity auctions with a biting silver tongue. De Pury travelled to Eliasson’s Berlin studio and home, where the two discussed light, communication, birthdays, art and the human rights of the planet’s plants and creatures

Simon de Pury: First, a question I often asked when I was interviewing someone for a job: if you could be an animal, what would you be?

Olafur Eliasson: I would be a jellyfish, I think. They move so graciously and they’re very slow. I like that a lot.

The Serpentine Pavilion lamps, 2007, by Olafur Eliasson. Photograph by Simon de Pury

SDP: I heard that you have a winter birthday.

OE: Yes, the 15 February.

SDP: So that makes you Aquarius. Do you follow astrology?

OE: No, I don’t. It’s remarkable that everything always fits. It’s a little bit like fortune cookies. It’s always nice… it’s like: you’re going to meet a friend next week. That cannot be wrong. But I think the question is whether we have room in our life for matters that don’t really fit into Western science.

Read more: Interview with Claire Ferrini of Astrea London

I think Western science falls short of providing a safe future. You could refer to indigenous knowledge, for example, or knowledge about trees, the forest, the cyclical nature of weather and seasons, and how to treat nature and so on. It is remarkable to observe that these knowledges are considered absolutely non- functional or non-important by the rationalised or pragmatised minds of Western society.

And it turns out that there is a lot of insight into happiness, success and health that indigenous knowledge addresses. The trees are not as simple as we humans thought they were. And this gives us a great opportunity. When we see a tree, instead of saying, “Oh, there is a tree, what can I use that for? Can I make money with it?”, we can become crucially aware that if we indeed keep exploiting or extracting nature, we are going to ruin our own livelihood, the wellbeing of the planet.

The first set of designs for the LUX logo by Olafur Eliasson

SDP: I recently saw a Belgian businessman who is based in Brazil. He was discussing a project with an Amazonian gentleman who told him: listen, I first need to consult the trees. Once the trees gave a positive feedback, they were able to kick off their project.

One of the most fascinating experiences I’ve ever had is when I attended the annual Summer Nights gala you curated for the Fondation Beyeler. You staged an incredible environment just for that one night and your sister provided amazing food.

When we entered the room where the dinner was to take place, everything was in black and white. We suddenly experienced the world as if we were colourblind. The weirdest thing was eating food when it’s only black and white. You got up and started to give a speech, you pressed a trigger and colour reappeared as by a miracle! I have no clue how you pulled that off.

The playful evolution of Olafur Eliasson’s LUX logo designs

OE: Yes. White light, like sunlight, is the spectrum of all the colours of the rainbow. If the white light missed a colour in it, then it would miss in the rainbow. We know Newton’s lens with the prism [where white light enters the prism and emerges on another side separated into the colours of the rainbow].

White light is the visible area of the electromagnetic spectrum. Each colour has a special wavelength, measured in, I think you call it a nanometre. This is how light works, right? There is a yellow light in the yellow spectrum that is 100 per cent monochromatic. In our eyes, we have what are called receptors for light: we have blue, red and green. We actually don’t have yellow because the mix of red and green produces yellow.

Read more: 180 years of history with Penfolds

If you have this monochromatic yellow light and there’s no other white light, you are, in fact, only seeing a black and white image. Humans are capable of seeing more grey tones than colour tones. That’s why a black-and-white photo by Ansel Adams can sometimes look more real than the same photo in colour.

So you realise that our eyes really influence our brain to interpret visual information – say the food on your plate. The vegetable, you thought, is green because it appears to be in the shape of an asparagus. But actually it could be an orange carrot. This means that I already have a predetermined opinion about what I’m looking at and that influences what I’m looking at. Perhaps this is why we have a hard time changing our mind. It is what the brain tells us we are seeing. That’s interesting, because it suddenly throws up that reality is relative. For me, it shows how you are the author of your own responsibility with regards to what and how and why you see. You can choose to change your view.

The final Olafur Eliasson design for the LUX logo, as seen on the cover of our Winter 2025 issue

SDP: At the Summer Nights gala, we all had under our seat a Little Sun. Can tell us about it?

OE: Occasionally, I have organised events using a little handheld solar lantern called Little Sun. It’s a handheld little power station, which has a solar panel, strong and qualitative. The Little Sun project was to advocate and build awareness around sustainable energy. So it also has that little educational offering to have confidence in solar panels. Because 15 years ago, when we were testing the very first slides, some people would say, well, I don’t believe in solar panels. Now everyone knows what a solar panel is. We have delivered one million off-grid lanterns in sub-Saharan Africa. A large amount of our lamps – I believe one-third – are distributed at no cost in places where there is no economical infrastructure, such as refugee camps. My co-founder of Little Sun, Frederik Ottesen, has now for many years lived in Zambia to build this.

SDP: When Sam Keller, Director of Fondation Beyeler, introduced you that night, he said, “Olafur Eliasson is a 21st-century Leonardo da Vinci.” In your practice as an artist, an activist, an environmentalist – in your multiple activities, who do you measure yourself with?

The complete sphere lamp, 2015, by Olafur Eliasson. An open woven basket afixed to a circular mirror that creates a ‘complete sphere’

OE: I am really grateful for what I have been doing. My studio in Berlin has a 30-year anniversary this year and I’ve been very focused on how to give back to younger artists, their conditions and teaching at art school. I have my amazing studio team; I have the same two gallerists that I started with: Tim Neuger & Burkhard Riemschneider here in Berlin, and Tanya Bonakdar in New York. I admire people like I admire the jellyfish for its easygoing way of swimming. I never was very focused on competition or the idea of the heroic act.

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I am momentarily very inspired by the structural language specialist, the late Marshall Rosenberg. I’ve thrown myself into quite an intense study of this founder of nonviolent communication. It is about speaking and acting without inflicting judgment or threatening people you have disagreements with. I think art can address, not just the feelings that people bring to the room, but also their needs. There is much less likely to be a conflict or a polarisation, if we can state our needs fundamentally.

Needs can be very personal: we want to have a life, we want to be acknowledged, we want to be healthy, we want an education, and so on. I have a need for silence, because I get anxious if I don’t have silence.

A portrait of Olafur Eliasson by Jonathan Newhouse, for LUX magazine

SDP: One of the reasons I’ve always loved art is that art is one thing that can bring us closer together. To hear you speak now about nonviolent communication is riveting. I didn’t realise that this was also part of your focus.

OE: It’s a recent development. I keep finding out that the world is quite amazing. I remain humble and grateful for the many opportunities and in particular for the incredible career I’ve had. And there are many, many collectors and artists and friends and gallerists and museums who have believed in me.

Read more: Why preventative healthcare is essential 

SDP: It’s extraordinary to realise that your career already spans 30 years. Your list of achievements is phenomenal. What are your dreams going forward?

OE: Klee did this Angelus Novus, of the angel that faces the past and the wisdom of the past, but, in fact, flies backwards into the future. That was the kind of conservative idea of what is a good life. You learn from the successes of the past. The late philosopher and anthropologist Bruno Latour said that, considering the fact that modernity created the climate crisis, we actually can maybe conclude the past wasn’t quite as successful as we thought. The ground is trembling, it is collapsing right underneath our feet. I hope to have the courage to keep reinventing myself. And my biggest wish is that people still want to, and consider that relevant.

‘Shadows travelling on the sea of the day’, 2022, by Olafur Eliasson, installation view, Northern Heritage sites, Doha, from a group exhibition for Qatar Museums’ Qatar Creates, 2022

I just looked at a cartoon where a small dragon sits on the back of the panda, and the dragon asks the panda: what do you like the most, the path, the journey, or the destination? The process or the goal? My generation grew up with these questions. We said it was about the process and not the destination. The panda says, it’s the company. It illustrates the fact that we are, more often than we think, stuck in our own paradigm, and that prevents us from seeing things anew. That’s why I also named my recent show in Tokyo “Sometimes the river is the bridge”.

Hope alone is not going to change much. I believe you need to take action yourself, to get out and do it; to not only look at the horizon, but down and around, and learn from those you disagree with, find mutual company and make a movement. Then you can create change.

SDP: I always look at artists as mediums, as I feel that artists see things we don’t see yet. Artists, on the whole, are directed to the future. I feel all your activities are directed towards the future. It’s so interesting with what you said about hope. One always says hope is what dies last.

Eliasson with his 2007 ‘The Serpentine Pavilion lamps’, 2024. Photograph by Simon de Pury

OE: I think that in many ways it is also about love, to admit we all have a need for love. Maybe we need a care economy that would cater for caring for future life on this planet. There are some companies that aspire to make nature the chair of the board. There is a lot of legislative work being done by grassroots organisations, such as the charity ClientEarth, founded by James Thornton. It represented the air of London by suing the UK government for having too many pollutants. It’s a famous case. There are many countries where rights of personhood are becoming part of the legislation. Non-humans, such as mountains or rivers, have rights of personhood to protect against human intervention. I like this idea that we humans are not so exceptional any more. For one project called “Future Assembly”, I worked with others to propose that the Human Rights Charter is rewritten so that every part of the world should have a seat at the table: animals, the sky, the ocean – they should speak up for their rights.

Breathing earth sphere by Olafur Eliasson is a permanent public artwork on Docho island, South Korea, created specifically for the island’s volcanic topography, from 13 Nov 2024; “Olafur Eliasson: your curious journey” is at Auckland Art Gallery Toi o Tāmaki, 7 Dec 2024- 24 Mar 2025; aucklandartgallery.com

Olafur Eliasson Studio

An artwork by Minjung Kim installed over the fireplace in the residential side entrance lounge of the Waldorf Astoria

LUX Contributing Editor Simon de Pury is also an auctioneer, art dealer, curator, photographer and DJ. He was most recently commissioned to curate a collection of art for the newly restored Waldorf Astoria in New York, which will open to residents in 2022. Here, he discusses the project’s concept and challenges, and his favourite places to see art

Simon de Pury

1. Where does your curatorial process generally begin?

Once the topic of an exhibition is defined you go about making in your head your dream selection. The minute this is done you answer as many practical questions as possible in order to produce a cost estimate and a timeline. The rest is all implementation.

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2. Can you tell us more about your concept for the Waldorf Astoria?

The concept for the Waldorf Astoria was dictated by its own history, and by the design that Jean-Louis Deniot had conceived for it. It was the owner’s wish to work entirely with original works done specifically with the space in mind.

An artwork by Philippe Decrauzat from the Waldorf Astoria collection.

3. How do you see the artworks interacting with the building’s architecture and history?

The proof will be in the pudding. Both the owners and the designer wanted artworks that would blend seamlessly into the Art Deco architecture of the building and the interior design that had been devised for it. They gave a clear preference for subdued colours and abstract works.

An artwork by Benjamin Ple from the Waldorf Astoria collection.

4. What’s the most challenging aspect of this particular project?

There is an abundance of rising artists in the world, so narrowing our focus to a select few was certainly a challenge, and a luxury.

Read more: Richard Mille’s collaboration with Benjamin Millepied & Thomas Roussel

5. If you had to choose one piece from the collection, what would it be and why?

I have a particular fondness for the work of Minjung Kim. Her technique is uniquely refined and her work combines her Asian cultural heritage sensibility with a feminine sensibility. I like every work she has done for the Waldorf Astoria and would be hard-pressed to pick one.

Mountain by Minjung Kim from the Waldorf Astoria collection

6. Where’s your favourite place in the world to see art?

Basically wherever I happen to be. I love seeing art being lived with in private homes. My favourite museum is the Neue Galerie in New York. The quality of the art is breathtaking and the scale is intimate enough to make you feel as if you are in a private home.

Find out more about Simon de Pury’s work and the restoration of Waldorf Astoria: waldorftowers.nyc

Artist Philip Colbert in his studio

London-based contemporary artist Philip Colbert works within the self-defined movement of ‘Neo Pop Surrealism’. His distinctive, wildly vibrant aesthetic speaks of a hyperactive age swollen with imagery, media and symbols. His oil paintings are chaotic, visual overloads, creating imaginary surrealist dreams of swirling Colgate toothpaste roads, falling currency signs and laugh-crying face emojis.

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The exhibition “Hunt Paintings” presented by Unit London at the Saatchi Gallery pop-up in Los Angeles, coinciding with this month’s Frieze art fair, brings together a diverse range of artworks, including large-scale paintings, sculptures, and a virtual reality experience which transports viewers into ‘Lobster Land’. The title makes reference to the old master hunt scenes, depicted in works by artists such as Reubens. Reflecting on the violence of these scenes, Colbert’s collages teeter on the edge of nightmare, reflecting on the darker side of pop culture that lies beneath the sheen, slogans and humour.

‘The Year of the Lobster’, a collaborative work with art auctioneer Simon de Pury, is the most striking satire and an exhibition highlight. The surreal video is an art auction come pop song come music video, ridiculing the art world, consumerist society, advertising and modern day paranoias as de Pury calls out brand names and slogans, continually asking the viewer: “You do like that lobster, don’t you?”

Installation shot of ‘Hunt Paintings’ by Philip Colbert at Saatchi Gallery, Los Angeles

“Philip Colbert – Hunt Paintings” runs until 11 March 2019 at the Saatchi Gallery pop-up, 8070 Beverly Blvd, Los Angeles. For more information visit: theunitldn.com/whats-on

Check out the next issue of LUX magazine, on sale from May 1 for a fabulous collaboration with Philip and Charlotte Colbert.

Lenny Kravitz performs at the 2017 Leonardo DiCaprio Foundation Gala, with DiCaprio (centre) and Madonna (right)

Whether painting, music or immersive experiences, artists – and the art they produce – play a huge role in raising hundreds of millions of dollars for some of the world’s most deserving charities, says art auctioneer and LUX contributing editor Simon de Pury

Simon de Pury

I’ve done the auction for the Leonardo DiCaprio Foundation Gala for the past four years in St. Tropez. It has raised in excess of $100million for environmental issues. You know, we can try to save everything else, but if we don’t have a planet, there’s not much to save, so I find it very surprising that what should be probably our primary, main concern is just so low down the pecking order of people’s preoccupations. But Leo DiCaprio is probably the most important fundraiser for environmental issues in the world. It’s the longest auction of any auction that I do – people arrive at nine o’clock and it goes on till past 2am. So it’s a real marathon, because not only are there top artworks (he’s a very active collector, so all the artists donate their best works), but also experiences. There are once-in-a-lifetime experiences like going to the gym with Madonna or playing tennis with Federer.

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And the evening is interrupted by little musical intermezzos. So, last year Madonna gave a fantastic concert halfway through, and then the whole thing ended at 2.30am with an incredible concert by Lenny Kravitz. Once that was finished, the after-party kicked in with DJ Cassidy and there was the after-after-party at the home of Dmitry Rybolovlev. We were the first to leave at 7am. But the party was in full swing!

There’s more money in that tent than at any evening in New York. The combination between high-net-worth individuals – Russian oligarchs, people from the Middle East, former Soviet states, Latin America, America, Europe – mixed with top actors and top models, creates an electric, exciting atmosphere.

The other one that is very exciting is the amfAR Gala in Cannes, which always takes place at what I view as possibly the most beautiful hotel in the world: Hotel du Cap-Eden-Roc. The artworks are displayed in an incredible way. Coming out of the hotel, you see an alley leading down to the sea, and at the bottom of the alley is the star work of the auction. One year they had a Damien Hirst, the famous mammoth; another year, a huge sculpture by Jeff Koons. So, you can really show the works in a spectacular way, and once the guests come they all mingle on that beautiful alley.

The artist Joe Bradley – there is a long waiting list for his work, and he had a big show at Gagosian in Geneva – donated a really fantastic work for the auction. And it made €750,000, which is basically the price you have to pay if you’re lucky enough to be given the chance to buy one.

The other highlight of amfAR every year is when Carine Roitfeld curates a fashion show. And this year it was with 31 different designers, and she picks the theme, and she picks the dresses. One year it was all in gold; one year it was multicoloured; one year it was red. And then all these top models come down the stairs and walk up and down the catwalk and the stage with the most unbelievable music, and so it creates a fantastic atmosphere. And then, once all of the models are on stage, I come up and stand in front of them and start the auction. That’s by far my favourite moment as an auctioneer in any auction.

Supermodel Winnie Harlow at amfAR in Cannes this year

This year was the 25th anniversary of amfAR to raise money for Aids. Another Aids-related charity I’ve done auctions for is the Elton John Foundation. He invites 70 or so people to dinner in his home, outside London. It’s very intimate. He usually pairs up with another musician – John Mayer, Annie Lennox, Andrea Bocelli – and then he comes and plays himself. It’s really nice if you’re invited to a private dinner, so people pay a lot of money for their seat there – much more than they would for a larger gathering. During those evenings, we just sell three or possibly four items. So the main way of raising funds is people getting there.

The Elton John Foundation is one of the most effective foundations on the calendar in terms of research for Aids. He has been relentless for years and years with his Foundation, raising funds. It is remarkable just to see what he has done and how much he gives of his own persona, how much he gives of his own funds.

Read more: Behind-the-scenes of Maryam Eisler’s latest book “Voices East London”

For Aids there’s also the MTV RE:DEFINE annual charity auction. I do it every year in Dallas, in cooperation with the Goss-Michael Foundation, founded by George Michael and Kenny Goss. That is also a fun event because you always have each year an artist that is being honoured. This year it was Tracey Emin.

And the Robin Hood Foundation Benefit in New York raises the biggest amounts; you just have all these hedge-funders in the room and they say, ‘Now we’re going to put the numbers there… please put your pledges,’ and then bleep. ‘You’ve just raised $72million dollars, thank you so much.’

In terms of the cancer charities, there is Denise Rich, who founded Gabrielle’s Angels in New York. I do the Angel Ball auction every year. She takes the Cipriani Downtown, 650 people for a seated dinner. She had the whole Kardashian family coming last time – the whole family except Kim – and they are very close to her, which is very rare. One year she had Pharrell Williams performing and suddenly he said to me, “Simon, come on stage. I want to sell a dinner with me!” And all the women became crazy, screaming. Then Usher said, “I’ll join the dinner as well!” And that second impromptu auction raised more than the regular auction.

The Beyeler Foundation Summer Nights Gala in Basel, Switzerland, is the most original of any fundraiser, because director Sam Keller asks one artist to take over the whole museum and transform it for one night, which means that only as a guest do you get to see what the artist has done.

One year it was Olafur Eliasson and you arrived and everything was black and white, as if we were in a black and white movie. We sat down and started eating the food – black and white. It tastes bizarre when you don’t see the colours. Eliasson said, “Now you know what the world looks like without colour.” And then there was a total blackout and he said, “Look under your chair.” And everybody had this little lamp, and he switched a button and suddenly all the colour came back. The food started tasting very, very good the minute you saw the colour. It’s the most bizarre experience ever. He also did artworks just for that night, paintings all in different colours. All this was created just for the night.

I also love doing the New Museum Spring Gala in New York, because of the artists who attend. Very often you sell great art at these events, but you have no artists in the room – maybe one or two. But the New Museum event is carried by the artists. This year were three of my favourites – all women. Julie Mehretu, Cecily Brown and Elizabeth Peyton, who is my favourite portrait artist today. If you had to choose who would be your dream person to do your portrait, she would be top of my list, and the New Museum had shown a mid-career introspective of her. Besides that there was new work from Jeff Koons, from George Condo… there were something like 55 artists in the room.

In terms of the contemporary art world, the New Museum Spring Gala is possibly the most exciting one, because personally I always find that the most rewarding thing in terms of what we do is the contact with the artists themselves. Nothing is more stimulating. They have such a fresh way of looking at everything. And that’s what I love, because, after all, without the artists all the rest is meaningless.

Simon de Pury is an art auctioneer and collector and the founder of de Pury de Pury. Find out more: depurydepury.com

Kate Upton at the 2017 amfAR Gala Cannes

Charity art auctions are taking off around the world, and for the best and worst of reasons, says Simon de Pury, himself the world’s leading philanthropic auctioneer

Simon de Pury

In times past, the main philanthropic efforts in the art world used to be confined to the US, for a couple of reasons. Firstly, there is fiscal encouragement for individuals to make charitable donations in the US, which is not the case in Europe. And more importantly it is an integral part of the entrepreneurial educational philosophy in the US, that if you are successful, you give back.

Any successful person in any area in the US is expected to have one or two causes to which they contribute some of the fortune they have made. But over the past 10 years, things have changed. More and more wealth has been created around the world, and the art market has consequently become more global. This means I have witnessed efforts in philanthropy around the world increasing dramatically.

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It is very gratifying to see, and in many cases to be involved with, cultural institutions that organise regular fundraising events. We also see increasing numbers of organisations of friends of museums, whose main task is to raise funds for philanthropic and charitable causes. In some cases, these are to benefit the institutions themselves; and in others, funds are raised for important causes that are not adequately funded through governments.

Perhaps the ultimate art philanthropist is Maja Hoffmann, who has devoted so much energy to the new LUMA Foundation in Arles; designed by Frank Gehry, it is going to become a cultural art centre of major importance. She also funded the Fondation Vincent van Gogh Arles; and she is a donor to MoMA and the New Museum in New York, and the Kunsthalle in Zurich. She supports these institutions not just in financial terms, but also by putting together sophisticated programs. She is a shining example.

The amfAR 2017 Gala in Cannes

Then there is the growing area of non-cultural philanthropy, one in which the art world is becoming increasingly involved. It’s not a recent development (although it has been growing exponentially recently) . The art world was the first to mobilise in the early days of the AIDS epidemic, when Thomas Ammann, an art-dealer friend of Elizabeth Taylor and Audrey Hepburn, set up amfAR, which has raised great amounts of money over the years.

What is striking about the art world is that some artists have themselves made significant donations. Damien Hirst donated a beautiful golden mammoth which Len Blavatnik bought for $16m at the amfAR auction in Cannes in 2014. It’s now at the Faena hotel on Miami Beach and something of an Instagram magnet. It also happens to be one of best works in the Damien Hirst oeuvre. Hirst is the most generous artist I know; he has donated many millions of dollars’ worth of art to various charities over the years. Tracey Emin is also immensely generous, as is Chuck Close, who never holds back in supporting causes close to his heart. There are many others, too; artists these days are solicited on a daily basis to donate works to various causes.

Leonardo DiCaprio and Madonna at the 4th Annual Saint-Tropez Gala organised by the Leonardo DiCaprio Foundation in 2017

There is one lingering anomaly, at a time when we should all be highly concerned about the future of the planet: the fact that only three per cent of global charitable donations go to environmental causes. Leonardo DiCaprio is leading the way in devoting time and energy to raising awareness of the poor state of the oceans and other environmental issues, and I have had the honour of being auctioneer at the four large charity auctions he has organised in St-Tropez over the past four years.

Read more: One-of-a-kind designs by talented artisans at Baku Corner

David Beckham arriving at the 2017 amfAR Gala

What is significant about these auctions is that they include works by artists such as Jeff Koons, Urs Fischer and George Condo, many of whom donate very substantial works. In 2016, of the 20-odd works on sale during the live auction, 15 were donated and 12 of them set new auction records. This shows that people are not simply buying art at these auctions as a charitable act – they are buying top works, which makes it sustainable and gives it extra purpose. Leonardo manages, through his status, not only to obtain top donations, but also to bring in potential purchasers from all over the world. In that tent in St-Tropez on the gala evening, there is a greater concentration of money than at the big auctions in New York.

What is increasingly extraordinary about these events is how global the audience is now. High net-worth individuals are coming from all over the world, with more and more attending from Russia, the former eastern bloc, the Middle East, China, Korea, Japan, Malaysia, Indonesia, Latin America and all over Africa. It has really become a global effort.

All of this also raises awareness, and once awareness spreads it becomes easier to raise funds. Offices that look after HNIs all now have specialists in philanthropy to advise their clients how they can help. People are getting drawn in for different reasons. Some people pay for the artworks because they just want the artwork. But increasingly individuals want to take responsibility because governments are not. One of the reasons philanthropy was initially more widespread in the US is that most institutions there depend on private donations, there being no public funding. In Europe, public budgets used to be much bigger, but with cuts, individuals have had to step in.

You can also see this with the instant mobilisation that takes place when something happens, for example the recent refugee crisis. Some artists are galvanized into action by such crises – Ai Weiwei has made a movie and marched on the streets of London together with Anish Kapoor. It’s the future.

Simon de Pury is an art auctioneer and collector and the founder of de Pury de Pury. Read more of his columns for LUX here.

Three paintings by Russian artist Erik Bulatov in his 2015 show ‘Bot’ at de Pury de Pury in London

The time is right for the art auction world to embrace the new digital technologies and take auctions online. That is the way to tap the vast reserves of potential new buyers, says our columnist Simon de Pury

Conceptually, I find myself fascinated by what is happening in the online world within the art market. This is a market that has been the most resistant of any to the digital revolution. And the likely cause of this is that it’s in nobody’s interest, in terms of the market’s key players, to make any changes to the way the system works.

But progress cannot be postponed forever. We have seen the rise of a number of companies that have focused on the online side of the art world. The pioneer of all of them, artnet.com, started 27 years ago with a price guide for artists’ works. For having information at your fingertips, they were the pioneer. Then you have companies in the auction space such as Artsy, Paddle8 (which recently merged with another online auction company, Auctionata) and Artspace which is also doing online auctions. The main auction houses also have an online side to their business.

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The difficulty that the main bricks-and-mortar houses have is that the minute they have a really exciting collection or group of works, their own specialists will fight to have it in their main sales rather than seeing it go to the houses’s online business. So already they effectively have internal competition built in.

Recently I teamed up with Arnaud Massenet, a co-founder with his ex-wife Nathalie Massenet of Net-a-Porter. Arnaud is a passionate collector with a strong interest in art, and so we have put on a number of auctions which we have held online with our company, de Pury de Pury. I also conducted the three first annual benefit auctions for the Leonardo DiCaprio Foundation. The first two were bricks-and-mortar auctions at which we raised $26m and $40m respectively. With the third one, which we did both live and with an online component, we raised $48m for the foundation. There were challenges such as having to develop a site that could handle the massive increase of traffic you can expect if you have a project involving a celebrity of the stature of DiCaprio. It was a good stress test for the online infrastructure. We have also used a mix of live and online sales for benefit auctions such as for the Fondation Beyeler in Basel.

Right now we believe in this hybrid model, but when you sell art works of quality, and when you put sales together that have been curated, you have to give the chance to potential buyers, if they wish, to see the works physically. You cannot just dispense altogether with offering that possibility to your potential purchasers. The approach is very much to have a stunningly staged physical exhibition, and at the same time, as enticing as possible an experience for the user who will participate solely online.

When you buy and sell artworks at a price range between $10k and $2m at auction with the main houses, you have to leave quite a considerable amount on the table in terms of the buyer’s premiums that need to be paid – 25% on top of the hammer price. Surely for works in that price bracket there must be a more efficient way of selling art, which should eventually put pressure on the commissions.

While the very top end of the market will always be about privileged personal relationships rather than internet sales, I believe that over the next two to five years we will witness a big transformation of the art market, involving a massive increase of its online component.

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At the moment, when you look at an auction online you have a very static image of the auctioneer and the experience is rather boring. This could quite easily be made to be much more lively, fun and animated to engage those who might bid from their office, home or swimming pool or from wherever they are following the sale. This will no doubt happen very soon. Online auctions will become a little more like some of the talk shows on American television, which are live and where you have a studio audience. Having an audience creates the atmosphere that comes across when you watch the programme, with laughing, cheering and clapping, so making it more of a show.

This is not so much of a radical transformation as some people may think. The big auctions now are packed with people filling the sales room, but as soon as you get above a certain price level most of the action takes place on the telephone. You just have the trade and some collectors who want to follow the market closely who remain in the room. So the challenge is to convey the atmosphere of what is happening and the mood of the room. The more successfully you can convey this, the easier it will be for people to get that feel without physically being there.

Photographs from Mario Testino’s show ‘Heat’ at the Dubai Design District, 2016

A key element is trust. The reason why some online auction companies have not been successful yet is that there is no trust in their expertise or track record. It is essential that such a record is established so that trust develops. A lot will be down to curating: at the moment online art and auction sites just have too much content, and need to have a clear curatorial vision. Once a track record for both buying and selling is established, it becomes much easier, because before that point is reached, you have to make ten times the effort for a tenth of the result. From my 16 years at Sotheby’s, I know that when you work for one of the main players of the duopoly [Sotheby’s and Christie’s], 80 to 90 per cent of the interesting works automatically cross your desk. You just have to make sure that you win slightly more often than you lose. What you lose gets sold by the other auction house. It is difficult for a newcomer in the online world to crack that.

Certain genres of work such as editions, prints and photographs lend themselves to online sales because, while you still need to get a condition report, you will likely have already seen works from that edition so know exactly what they look like. The minute you venture into genres where uniqueness plays a role, such as paintings or other one-off artworks, it changes. Also, the borders between various categories of contemporary culture are breaking down, so architecture, cinema, fashion and music now all cross over with art. We will have many more collaborations between these categories and the internet lends itself to this situation, as breaking down these barriers is done so much more easily online than in the bricks-and-mortar world.

The entry point of the internet is much less forbidding to those who fear crossing the threshold into the art world. It is much less intimidating than going into an auction house and brings many new potential buyers to the market. In one year, the number of individual clients at one of the big auction houses may be around 20,000 – that is an estimate, but in any case it’s a very small number and shows you how that the art market has a massive potential to grow. There is a very small group of individuals who are willing to pay $100m, or more, on a single work. There are slightly more people who are willing to pay $50m on a single work. Further down the scale, you have more people still who are willing to pay $10m, and many players at $1m. There is a huge number of people who do not collect or buy at all and who have no interest, to date, in spending part of their wealth on art. That suggests that the potential growth of the auction market is substantial, and new technologies are the best way to enlarge that art-buying public.

Simon de Pury is an art auctioneer and collector and the founder of de Pury de Pury
 depurydepury.com

The investment potential of the best art will just keep on increasing, says Simon de Pury, one of the world’s most renowned auctioneers, as art becomes ever more aligned with high luxury.

Simon de Pury

Art is the ultimate luxury. You don’t need it to live, which is a definition of a luxury. And in the past few years other similarities between the art market and the luxury market have emerged.

Ten years ago you would go to different – not luxurious – parts of town to see art. In New York you would go downtown; in London you would go east for certain exhibitions and galleries, for example. Now, though, in the art business you need to be very central for the same reasons as you do in the luxury market: it’s all about location, location, location. Thus the concentration of top galleries that are installing themselves in Mayfair in London, while in New York there is a return to the Upper East Side. There’s a lot of artistic activity focusing on these areas because when the international traveller comes to town, he stays in the heart of the city, goes to the top hotel and wants to have everything in an immediate circle, and wants to not have to waste too much time pursuing these passions. So all of that has had an impact, changing the market quite fundamentally. Galleries are now seeking real estate in the same locations as the top luxury brands.

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Art is also the ultimate luxury because you get emotionally involved, and if you go about it smartly it can be a very rewarding passion. Rewarding in every sense.

Erik Bulatov, Rouge a Levres, 1994, pencil on paper

In concurrence with these developments, the art market is changing also. The market has become global, so for the first time you now have people from all parts of the world buying art from all parts of the world. Compare this to the Cold War, when some artists in the east had no idea what was happening in the west: you had artists working in total isolation. Today there is much easier access to knowledge and information about what is happening in different places through the digital revolution. And this has fuelled further internationalisation. You have biennials in Havana, Sydney, Shanghai, Venice and Istanbul. There is a now a great exchange of information and knowledge, and with knowledge comes a greater interest in acquiring.

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The information that used to be accessible to a small group of insiders is now much more easily and much more widely accessible. As a result, if you look at a list of the most affluent people in each country, 20 years ago there would have been a relatively small percentage of those who were collectors, whereas now if you look at the same lists, there’s a much bigger percentage collecting. And it’s also that which gives art the ultimate status. You can be a very successful businessman, yet it will never give you the same kind of kudos as you get when you are building a great collection. It’s your cultural achievements that leave your biggest mark and your imprint, and that is one reason why individual collectors in different parts of the world have become the main cultural movers and shakers – much more so than the main institutions.

Erik Bulatov, Perestroika, 1989

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Nonetheless, there are factors any collector should be aware of. Your collection is your self-portrait. Collecting is an artistic, creative pursuit in itself. By collecting you show who you are and give yourself an identity. For that reason your collection cannot be put together by a committee: it has to be one person who takes the decision of what to buy and (just as important!) what not to buy. Equally, having a professional adviser who is very familiar with the market can help you avoid making mistakes and can help you to navigate the market, so it makes sense for people who have built substantial collections to have either in-house or external specialists that they consult. But even so, it is important that the person who is building the collection follows their own instincts. I often see people who start collecting becoming as knowledgeable as anyone else in the market.

There are questions of a market readjustment. Whenever the market becomes stronger and stronger there are always moments of readjustment. No market just goes vertically up without any fluctuations. And, of course, tastes evolve as well, so what is regarded today as the most desirable things may not be regarded as so in 50 years. Having said that, if you buy only the best quality you can only do well, because you can analyse it statistically from the 1850s onwards and see sufficient documentary evidence that the prices of major art transactions just keep going up. Still, there are some masters of the past – not just artists of our times – that we value much more highly today than 50 years ago. But be aware: there will always be artists who are like a fashion phenomenon – once the initial excitement dies down, so do the prices.

Simon de Pury is an art auctioneer and collector and the founder of de Pury de Pury. depurydepury.com